pete
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by pete on Jul 23, 2020 10:35:30 GMT
Hi mini-o-nauts!
Got a question about limber holes. The frame gussets in the kit will trap water eventually (condensation, probably) and given it'll be fresh water if condensation, rot may be possible, not to mention them just filling with general boaty gunk over time.
Wanted to know your thoughts or suggestions for solving this issue. I was thinking of a limber hole in the gusset, but this is just another exposed edge of plywood that would need to be sealed. Second alternative would be to simply fill the opening with some of the solid wood stock and seal them up totally. Any further ideas welcome!
Heres my Frame A with the kit gussets in place to hlep visualise.
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abel
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by abel on Jul 23, 2020 11:23:46 GMT
You're right, to think about this; especially here in the UK.
To me, this is only a concern on the bottom gussets and I'm going to fill them with solid wood.
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Post by Admin on Jul 23, 2020 13:50:04 GMT
Hi Pete...frames are looking cool!! My opinion ( NOT a directive  )and suggestion is that first, EVERY piece of timber in the structure inside MUST be sealed with epoxy or a serious wood preservative and EVERY time you drill a hole you MUST seal the hole again BEFORE putting a bolt through or ?? anything?? never leave raw timber....or it may one day come back to bite you ....I will just drill small holes and seal them. good luck what ever... Primer and Paint is also ok...for surfaces but I like epoxy for edges of ply in fittings ..every hole on deck etc etc and any places you will never get to again |
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abel
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by abel on Jul 23, 2020 18:45:17 GMT
This raises a good point regarding the interior and epoxy.
I was planning to epoxy coat the frames/bulkheads seal all holes etc. but just paint the inside of the ply and the stringers with primer then paint.
Anyone think a a full 2x or 3x epoxy coating of the interior would be better ? Is is a good thing to fully seal the plywood ?
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 24, 2020 4:35:10 GMT
Hi mini-o-nauts!
Second alternative would be to simply fill the opening with some of the solid wood stock and seal them up totally. Any further ideas welcome!
Hello! I will be gluing some high density foam into the spaces and capping the tops with some 6mm - 1/4in solid. I will do this on all of them. Cheers. |
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 24, 2020 4:57:51 GMT
This raises a good point regarding the interior and epoxy. I was planning to epoxy coat the frames/bulkheads seal all holes etc. but just paint the inside of the ply and the stringers with primer then paint. Anyone think a a full 2x or 3x epoxy coating of the interior would be better ? Is is a good thing to fully seal the plywood ? Hi Abel... I will be applying a 200g boat cloth (with a peel ply) to the entire interior surface of the hull below the second chine, and all the way to the gunwale in the cockpit lockers. All other surfaces will have 2x epoxy. Then the entire interior including bilges and all lockers will be painted white with a 2k epoxy urethane primer using a roller and brush. No top coat. There are a couple of schools of thought about fully sealing a modern wooden marine structure. Some say that its good to let your structure "breathe", I stand firmly in the 'total encapsulation' camp.  Cheers |
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 24, 2020 5:17:46 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers.
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abel
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by abel on Jul 24, 2020 7:03:40 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers. Yes, I think this is a good idea. When I comes to fully encapsulating the plywood, I think I have a foot in both camps . |
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pete
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by pete on Jul 24, 2020 7:53:39 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers.
Agreed a single lowest point or sump is quite important i think for bilge pump operation, where would you locate the limber holes? - alongside the stringers on either side of the bottom panel (enlarge the stringer hole) or create entirely new mouseholes in the floors?
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pete
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by pete on Jul 24, 2020 8:02:50 GMT
Hi mini-o-nauts!
Second alternative would be to simply fill the opening with some of the solid wood stock and seal them up totally. Any further ideas welcome!
Hello! I will be gluing some high density foam into the spaces and capping the tops with some 6mm - 1/4in solid. I will do this on all of them. Cheers.
I like the foam idea, fully sealing with a cap of thin material on top like this is the way i think i'm going to go, seems relatively low effort for a good seal and neat finish. Doing this on all of the gussets (regardless of whether on deckhead/ in bilge etc) will make the whole interior feel a bit more pro and be a lot easier to keep clean, with less nooks and crannies for gloop to collect in (and be easier to seal in general with no awkward bits a paintbrush cannot get to).
Will see if i get around to it for the less essential ones. Juggling boat building time alongside work and family needs to be carefully managed at the mo and some of these 'nice-to-haves' may have to fall off the plan!
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 24, 2020 19:03:43 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers.
Agreed a single lowest point or sump is quite important i think for bilge pump operation, where would you locate the limber holes? - alongside the stringers on either side of the bottom panel (enlarge the stringer hole) or create entirely new mouseholes in the floors?
To be honest, I need to think about this a little bit more. There are several things to keep in mind, one being the bunk risers must not contain any holes that will allow the free flow of water from side to side. So no limber holes in them. My plumbing strategy will dictate in the end... I am just not far enough down that road yet to make a call. It is probably something that all builders should get onto early as they will need to provide a schematic drawing of the bilge pumping system as part of their initial Yacht Registration File... designing a system to get large volumes of water out of all three water tight zones in the boat will almost certainly answer all limber hole questions! It may also help builders with construction decisions as they go rather than back tracking later in the project... (Maybe that is this weekends focus...  ) Cheers |
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 24, 2020 19:08:24 GMT
Double post.
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Post by captdan on Jul 26, 2020 21:32:50 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers. Martellmarine, That totally makes sense to allow water to move within those areas. It made me think about where the bilge pump suctions would be. What would happen to the areas around Frame C where there are the oak floors for the keel ? I'm not sure I want to be drilling holes through them for water movement ..... or maybe ? Thoughts? Captdan |
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Post by Admin on Jul 27, 2020 2:42:52 GMT
With regards to limber holes in general, I will put them in all athwartship frames and floors each side the mandatory water tight bulkheads. Cheers. Martellmarine, That totally makes sense to allow water to move within those areas. It made me think about where the bilge pump suctions would be. What would happen to the areas around Frame C where there are the oak floors for the keel ? I'm not sure I want to be drilling holes through them for water movement ..... or maybe ? Thoughts? Captdan The reality is that the bilge pumps are for evacuating major water not nuisance water. There is NO sump in the boat and that is the case with many racing yachts, so the BIG sponge and a Bucket is the go for that last stuff...and the internal manual Bilge pump with a flexible movable suction line to reach tricky places may be handy?? like a vacuum cleaner hose. I am NOT keen on Limber holes through Keel Floors..... |
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)and suggestion is that first, EVERY piece of timber in the structure inside MUST be sealed with epoxy or a serious wood preservative and EVERY time you drill a hole you MUST seal the hole again BEFORE putting a bolt through or ?? anything?? never leave raw timber....or it may one day come back to bite you 
)