Absolute Beginner (Melbourne)

[Peter]

G'day all (I'm actually Scottish but based in Melbourne) 

Not sure where to start here. Admitting I can't sail yet is probably a good place ha ha.

When my son was born 9 years ago I thought about an activity that we could both take part in and learn together when he was old enough and sailing came out on top - sustainable travel and adventure!!

I've been learning all I can and a few years ago I bought an Eastport Nesting Pram kit from Denman Marine in Tassie. Loved building it but I'm a busy boy so it took me a while. Only got it on the water last week when restrictions eased - it floated thankfully!

I plan to learn to sail in it with him once this pandemic is under control...

One idea was to make this little sailing dinghy the tender to a larger boat that I could used around the coast of Victoria and beyond - maybe even sail over to Tasmania which I have fallen in love with.

I'd love something that I could transport on a trailer to save on marina costs but open to other options. Also looking for something strong that can protect us when things go wrong - I've listened to a lot of sailing podcasts ha ha

I was initially thinking on something like a Chesapeake Light Craft Pocketship or maybe a Cygnet 20 if I saved enough pennies.

Quite like the idea of building the "bigger" boat while I learn on the dinghy - I'm quite handy (current president of Design and Technology Teachers Association of Australia).

Would my Eastport Pram Kit building experience even qualify me for the 580?

When I saw the 580 in Denman Marine's newsletter recently I was instantly intrigued.

Obviously racing is not on the agenda for me - but I like the idea of bluewater capable boat under 20ft. I'd maybe try to make it a bit more comfortable for short cruises, but would want the boat to retain racing potential for resale or future adventures...

So many questions but just wanted to put my situation and thoughts out there to see if others had any advice.

Anyone else in Melbourne considering building? I'd be open to considering a shared build / owning experience, not sure how that would work. 

If a few folk in Melbourne are considering a build maybe we could connect on here to share ideas and experiences? Future race around Port Phillip Bay?

I've added some pics of the pram - think it turned out ok (mast and sails etc are next to be added when I get a chance ha ha).

Cheers

Attachments:

[Admin]

Hi Peter...wow!! your absolutely qualified to build that is a cool tender. good job!! I have another friend who did the stacking version of that in Tassie so funny when he cut it in half!!...and if you do it is a good idea to keep the 5.80 in class for resale value...as for the sailing...you can learn that while your building. I do not need to tell you about the 5.80 as you could spend a day reading and watching the website, not to mention all the posts on this forum. All good learning. The big thing is taking the first step and deciding if you want to do it...after that passion makes it happen...for sailing go find a small yacht club and talk to the members..they will for sure take you for a sail, do plenty of reading and you tube videos and it will all start to make sense ..so good luck for now..we all started at the beginning and that is the fun part... ..always happy to chat anytime and answer questions...I can already see you crew is saying YES!! DAD!!

[Peter]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Don! I had to have a few beers before I cut mine in half - it didn't help ha ha.

580 looks to fit the bill for me - a retractable keel version might be even better for trailering around Victoria and beyond. I think I read somewhere that that is development? Would that option still be suitable for Globe /Trans races?

The idea of doing this with other more experienced sailors and builders is very appealing so I've joined the Wooden Boat association here in Melbourne and maybe get some interest going.

If you know of anyone else doing this in Melbourne please send them my way!

Covid-19 is kicking our butts again over here so might be a wee while until I get it going - but I'm pretty keen ;-)

Cheers

[Admin]

HI...yes I am in Hobart at the moment...so good luck there !! I hope to see you sailing in a 5.80 but the lift keel version may not appear till earliest end of the year?? maybe later? and it will not meet the Class Globe 5.80 rule so will just be a very cool ocean racing lift keel boat...all the best...

[Chris H]

Hi Peter, have you continued your plans to build a 5.80 here in Vic?
I've become really interested in Don's fabulous project; and I'm in a similar situation to you except I'm a bit older even less experienced in boat building!
My sailing background is dinghies and windsurfing ... but my now sailing goals are Western Port, Bass Strait, Tasmania. Who knows, maybe one day a Transat?!
I'm thinking of ordering a kit (or maybe materials to start from scratch) from Denman. I'd be building at home in Kilcunda (near Phillip Island).
If I do, and you too ... would be great to stay in touch.
Chris.

[Daniel Mahon]

Hi Peter,
Here's some advice from someone who didn't grow up sailing, then learned to sail as an adult. Sail with people who know how for a while and learn enough to get out there on your own. Get yourself a cheap trailer sailer and get on the water. In a small/cheap trailer sailer you can learn plenty the hard way without coming to too much harm (or expense). As you gain skills and get bigger goals, trade up. Building a boat and sailing are two completely different things. If you want to spend your life building a boat, go for it. But that's thousands of hours you won't be sailing, and it's a lot more expensive to build from scratch than to just buy something used. There area always plenty of boats for sale much cheaper than the $$ put in.
This whole site is dedicated to promoting a certain boat for a certain activity. There are much more suitable boats for what you want to do, and you could pick up a trailer sailer to start sailing for the cost of buying the plywood for this boat.

[Peter]

Aug 20, 2020 20:50:07 GMT Chris H said:

Hi Peter, have you continued your plans to build a 5.80 here in Vic?
I've become really interested in Don's fabulous project; and I'm in a similar situation to you except I'm a bit older even less experienced in boat building!
My sailing background is dinghies and windsurfing ... but my now sailing goals are Western Port, Bass Strait, Tasmania. Who knows, maybe one day a Transat?!
I'm thinking of ordering a kit (or maybe materials to start from scratch) from Denman. I'd be building at home in Kilcunda (near Phillip Island).
If I do, and you too ... would be great to stay in touch.
Chris.

Hi Chris,



Thanks for your reply, I'd definitely be interested to follow your build. I think I'm going to try and get on the water first and learn to sail before embarking on the 580 build straight away.



I'm definitely interested in building one in the future though, maybe the trailer sailor version. Having something like this to take over to Tassie would be ideal, I love the fact that it is designed for extreme weather. Not sure I would be that confident taking a cheap trailer sailor out beyond Port Phillip Bay.



Please post here if you start your build and I'd love to swing by Kilcunda one day to see how you are going.



Cheers!

[Peter]

Aug 26, 2020 14:40:20 GMT Daniel Mahon said:

Hi Peter,
Here's some advice from someone who didn't grow up sailing, then learned to sail as an adult. Sail with people who know how for a while and learn enough to get out there on your own. Get yourself a cheap trailer sailer and get on the water. In a small/cheap trailer sailer you can learn plenty the hard way without coming to too much harm (or expense). As you gain skills and get bigger goals, trade up. Building a boat and sailing are two completely different things. If you want to spend your life building a boat, go for it. But that's thousands of hours you won't be sailing, and it's a lot more expensive to build from scratch than to just buy something used. There area always plenty of boats for sale much cheaper than the $$ put in.
This whole site is dedicated to promoting a certain boat for a certain activity. There are much more suitable boats for what you want to do, and you could pick up a trailer sailer to start sailing for the cost of buying the plywood for this boat.

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your advice and I agree, best to get out on the water rather than get stuck into another build for years.

I've joined the Wooden Boat Association in Melbourne recently and hope to find some people to sail with through that. Bit wary of joining a sailing club with no experience and no boat. Also not sure I'd fit in with the social scene of Melbourne based sailing club as working class Glaswegian ha ha 

As a designer I love the focus and features of the 580 and would love to build one in the future - but not just yet.

[deano]

Hi Peter.

I suspect we are brothers from another mother. I am an ex-pat Kiwi in Melbourne (Macleod), have a 10-year-old daughter and recently built a CLC Eastport Nesting Pram to encourage her to learn to sail. We joined the Sugarloaf Sailing Club (www.sailsugarloaf.com) which I would highly recommend if it is anywhere near where you are. They have club boats and training programs for you and your son and are very welcoming. Unfortunately for me, my daughter is not as interested as I had hoped but I'll keep trying to light the flame. I sailed as a teenager and am keen to get back into it and share it with her - I'm not quite up to the gymnastics she is mad keen on.

Also, like you, I was looking at a CLC boat again for my next build. I bought several sets of plans and was set to start a Northeast Dory when I happened upon a partially completed Pocketship kit in Brisbane. I jumped on it and spent several days driving there to get the boat and kit parts. I've now rented a small workshop in Coburg which is set up as a boat building shed. I'm getting the inside hull ready for bilge paint before starting on cockpit and deck installation. Stage 4 has put a dent in progress of late.

Meanwhile, I also followed Daniel's advice above and bought a "cheap" trailer sailer - a Hartley TS21 - with the intent of using that to reacquaint myself with sailing while I build the Pocketship. Again, plans on hold with lockdown - hopefully in the water before end of year.

I've also been thinking about my third build and the desire to cross Bass Strait. I have the plans for a John Welsford Penguin (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm) which I love the looks of. The Denman Marine newsletter recently has me now looking at the 5.80 as a candidate. I would also be more likely to consider the drop-keel version.

In any case, you're welcome to come have a look at the Pocketship and boatshed when we are again allowed to get out of the house and maybe join me on the TS in the bay.

A couple of my photos attached also - launch day on the sugarloaf reservoir.  You'd be welcome to borrow my mast, sails etc. if you want to have a sail in your boat.

Cheers Dean.  

Attachments:

[Peter]

Hi Dean, when it comes to Macleods usually "there can be only one" ;-) Perhaps not in this case? That is a surprising number of coincidences, thanks for sharing and the pram looks great too!

Kids eh, I'm sure she'll love the pocketship - well done on that find and hopefully it means a quicker build for you.

Would you believe I actually live in Coburg? Will definitely need to drop by and see how it is going, happy to help if you need a hand at any stage once lockdown is over, turning the pram over on my own was tricky at times, go the scars on me and the boat to prove it ha ha.

Hartley TS21 seems like a good buy too! We've definitely been considering the same things, the Penguin looks like an interesting Bass Strait option. Do you climb through the head to the forward cabin? A toilet is probably a must for us too so unique solution for a small boat! The 580 falls down on that one but perhaps interior could be modified... love the seaworthy nature of it though. I'm expecting I will make some big mistakes at some point that I will need the boat to save me from, you can't argue with 3 watertight compartments and positive flotation!

Great tip about Sugarloaf Sailing Club, hadn't heard of it before so will definitely check that out too.

Thanks also for the offer to borrow mast and sails, I still need to add flotation to my pram, got some styrofoam sheets ready to cut up and shape, but the thought of destroying my garage with dust again is depressing. Considering using cardboard to temporarily seal under seats and then spray in expanding foam to create basic shapes that I can then finish of easily and cover with epoxy. Sound like a difficult way to be lazy?

I'll send you my email and number in private message, thanks again for getting in touch with all the advice and generous offers. Great minds eh!

Anyone else ever used spray foam to create buoyancy?

[rom1cha]

Bonjour,
L’idée d’utiliser de la mousse expansive m’intéresse également.
Qui l’a déjà fait ? Et comment ?

Amitiés
Romain

[Admin]

Two pot expanding foam is very easy...just follow directions and remember it is very POWERFULL if trapped in a tight space and can push out timber if no pressure release..used a lot in boats...the spray cans would so similar?? or a combination of cut sheets and spray filing the gaps..all very simple so good luck!

[Peter]

Hello again Melbournites, just checking in to see if there are more builders in the city or anywhere else in Victoria?

Would be keen to visit and help out.

Also interested in shared build/ownership ideas.

Would be great to have a small fleet of these things down under one day!

[cragle]

I would also be interested in a cooperative group build. Where interested parties could help each other build each boat as we go along. I feel hesitant since I have no epoxy stitch and glue experience. But could imagine the speed if a group build was done with 1 expert helping novices with the build. If we all pitched in we could get a class of these boats up and running very quickly. Simple parts after cutting out could be parted out to each member. Assemble on the weekend and we could have kit assemblies read for 3 or 4 boats. Obviously it will rely on trust and good will on the part of everyone pulling their weight and really pulling their finger out by not being lazy. I would be willing to volunteer as a labourer/helper to anyone for free. Hopefully I can gain experience and learn from the mistakes. There also could be savings made by sharing the strong back jig. There are many possibilities to help each other and the class in general as volunteers?