martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 8, 2020 18:20:59 GMT
I am pretty well convinced that I need them... but that means water tight hatches! Would love to hear your ideas, challenges and solutions for using the space in the aft end of the boat and how you are going to make the hatches water tight!
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2020 2:31:35 GMT
I have looked at this closely and for TREKKA I will use these Plastimo hatches for cockpit locker lids... ecat.plastimo.com/en/#page/288-289 and this size 357 x 606 hatch one each side...they are basically water tight as they do not have to hold a head of pressure like in a watertight bulkhead. they would NOT be approved for that application. The other thing is you can fit a key lock on one handle so lock them for security. I am also using two of these hatches for the end lockers of both my bunks making them basically watertight as well. I am also going to fill the cavity under the cockpit sole with High Density Foam to stop things dropping into that part from the lockers, and add buoyancy. Remember you must have a closing drain from the aft and forward watertight compartments to let them drain into the main compartment to pump out if required.  |
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
|
Post by martellmarine on Jul 10, 2020 6:05:00 GMT
I have looked at this closely and for TREKKA I will use these Plastimo hatches for cockpit locker lids... ecat.plastimo.com/en/#page/288-289 and this size 357 x 606 hatch one each side...they are basically water tight as they do not have to hold a head of pressure like in a watertight bulkhead. they would NOT be approved for that application. The other thing is you can fit a key lock on one handle so lock them for security. I am also using two of these hatches for the end lockers of both my bunks making them basically watertight as well. I am also going to fill the cavity under the cockpit sole with High Density Foam to stop things dropping into that part from the lockers, and add buoyancy. Remember you must have a closing drain from the aft and forward watertight compartments to let them drain into the main compartment to pump out if required. Lots of good info here... thanks I have a few thoughts though... What prompted my interest about cockpit lockers, apart from general storage, was specifically anchors and their chains and rope, outboard fuel storage and gas bottle storage (hence my other posts about anchor storage and auxiliary propulsion). Is the intention behind the hatches being "basically water tight" got something to do with the locker spaces as drawn not being self draining? Meaning are we trying to prevent rainwater and the odd big splash from pushing water in through the cracks around the lid and slowly filling the locker cavity, regardless of the presence of gutters, as opposed to having an airtight buoyancy chamber? I would like to identify what potential problems or situations are trying to be avoided or solved by the use of water tight locker lids. I have in mind some possible modifications of the spaces to accomodate various things like the 2 issues following... Here in NZ there are rules about gas bottle installation and storage. Essentially a seperate vented space. Outboard fuel also needs to be sensibly stored, and there is a required volume needed for a boat this size for Category 1 offshore voyaging... min 42 litres! Could the cavity under the cockpit sole also be used for storage with external access using one of the Plastimo lids? Thanks for your input... |
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Post by Admin on Jul 10, 2020 12:39:07 GMT
I have looked at this closely and for TREKKA I will use these Plastimo hatches for cockpit locker lids... ecat.plastimo.com/en/#page/288-289 and this size 357 x 606 hatch one each side...they are basically water tight as they do not have to hold a head of pressure like in a watertight bulkhead. they would NOT be approved for that application. The other thing is you can fit a key lock on one handle so lock them for security. I am also using two of these hatches for the end lockers of both my bunks making them basically watertight as well. I am also going to fill the cavity under the cockpit sole with High Density Foam to stop things dropping into that part from the lockers, and add buoyancy. Remember you must have a closing drain from the aft and forward watertight compartments to let them drain into the main compartment to pump out if required. Lots of good info here... thanks I have a few thoughts though... What prompted my interest about cockpit lockers, apart from general storage, was specifically anchors and their chains and rope, outboard fuel storage and gas bottle storage (hence my other posts about anchor storage and auxiliary propulsion). Is the intention behind the hatches being "basically water tight" got something to do with the locker spaces as drawn not being self draining? Meaning are we trying to prevent rainwater and the odd big splash from pushing water in through the cracks around the lid and slowly filling the locker cavity, regardless of the presence of gutters, as opposed to having an airtight buoyancy chamber? I would like to identify what potential problems or situations are trying to be avoided or solved by the use of water tight locker lids. I have in mind some possible modifications of the spaces to accomodate various things like the 2 issues following... Here in NZ there are rules about gas bottle installation and storage. Essentially a seperate vented space. Outboard fuel also needs to be sensibly stored, and there is a required volume needed for a boat this size for Category 1 offshore voyaging... min 42 litres! Could the cavity under the cockpit sole also be used for storage with external access using one of the Plastimo lids? Thanks for your input... A few things...anyone can use a normal outboard for cruising but you will find for 5.80 Transats and MGR we only allow ELECTRIC outboards so fuel is not onboard. The Plastimo hatches are watertight with a small seal so they definitely keep the water out. But if the compartment is FULL of water you to not need to try to keep it in...which is required on a watertight bulkhead (sealing with a head of pressure both sides)and we would not approve them for that...You will need to show you can pump out the cockpit lockers and forward compartment when needed...the closing drains meet the rule and the best way, but you could use a plunger type portable kayak pump too...so cockpit locker lids need to close on a gasket seal. No you cannot penetrate the cockpit sole as the hatch would be underwater often which does not happen on the seat. ...You could not make a cockpit locker self draining for gas. Just use canisters or external gas bottles. I have given up on the idea of sleeping on the cockpit sole as I am fitting a mainsheet traveller across the cockpit, so will put a removable aft partition across the back of the foot well under the tiller to drop my STUFF and dunny bucket in to stop it rolling around...you could actually deck in that whole back across the cockpit if you wanted and make a locker under the tiller?? but too heavy if you fill it up ...but then I would be faster than you ...so do it !!! all the best... |
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martellmarine
Junior Member
Husband & wife team building boat #71.
Posts: 61
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Post by martellmarine on Jul 10, 2020 19:59:31 GMT
A few things...anyone can use a normal outboard for cruising but you will find for 5.80 Transats and MGR we only allow ELECTRIC outboards so fuel is not onboard. Wow! I guess I missed this announcement! Only electric for Transats and MGR... The Plastimo hatches are watertight with a small seal so they definitely keep the water out. But if the compartment is FULL of water you to not need to try to keep it in...which is required on a watertight bulkhead (sealing with a head of pressure both sides)and we would not approve them for that...You will need to show you can pump out the cockpit lockers and forward compartment when needed...the closing drains meet the rule and the best way, but you could use a plunger type portable kayak pump too...so cockpit locker lids need to close on a gasket seal. Sorry... I am having trouble understanding... I am thinking about extending the plane of the cockpit sole into the aft lockers. The lockers will not be as deep but the sole of the locker space would be exactly the same as the sole of the cockpit, same angle etc. The cockpit is open to the elements and is self draining using the angle of the sole and the transom scuppers. The locker spaces could also be self draining if built this way. The bulkhead at the fwd end of the locker space is still water tight, can still have closing drains (probably not needed in this config) but the locker lids have less of a need to have gaskets. The locker spaces as drawn definitely need the drains and water tight hatches as it is designed to catch and keep water! No you cannot penetrate the cockpit sole as the hatch would be underwater often which does not happen on the seat. Ok thanks. You could not make a cockpit locker self draining for gas. Just use canisters or external gas bottles. To meet gas bottle installation rules here in NZ you build a seperate lidded space that has a vent at the bottom (gas heaver than air). The vent can be a hose terminating in a skin fitting overboard. In the 5.80 that vent could be through the transom, or at least into the cockpit space which would be the same as mounting the gas bottle in the cockpit anyway. I want to keep the cockpit as clear as possible. I have given up on the idea of sleeping on the cockpit sole as I am fitting a mainsheet traveller across the cockpit, so will put a removable aft partition across the back of the foot well under the tiller to drop my STUFF and dunny bucket in to stop it rolling around...you could actually deck in that whole back across the cockpit if you wanted and make a locker under the tiller?? but too heavy if you fill it up Great info and ideas! ...but then I would be faster than you ...so do it !!! all the best... Hahaha  This remains to be seen... |
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Post by Admin on Jul 11, 2020 5:41:53 GMT
1. Electric outboards are going to be part of the passage plan so think battery CAPACITY, SOLAR AND CALMS 2. The entire volume of the space aft of the aft WT bulkhead is required to keep the boat afloat if you hole the central section, so it all MUST remain watertight with NO air leaks you can continue the cockpit sole across then decrease the size of the cockpit locker but then both spaces must be watertight and pump out-able or drain-able, on/off, only inside the boat into the saloon to pump out with main pumps..so the cockpit lockers are flotation/buoyancy so need gaskets. ..and you cannot have a gas drain as that lets water in. 3. If you must have a big gas bottle do NOT put it in a locker..mount it in the open on the aft rail then no locker needed or use canisters and store them in a cockpit bag for the inspection ...my JET BOIL canisters will be stored in a locker( even though NZ say unsafe so put them in a rope bag for the inspection ...and I use alcohol for normal cooking stove THNX |
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Post by peterbrumby on Jul 11, 2020 22:09:32 GMT
Ref Gas Lockers. I have been having a look at these; en.yachtshop.eu/product_osculati/5025100/Watertight%20gas%20bottle%20housingPlace it in a constructed cockpit locker with a watertight hatch cover over the top. Would probably need to drain through the transom. I believe may get some flexibility on the height of the drain as long as there is no space for gas to build up in the locker......this looks like it would be a pretty tight fit. |
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This remains to be seen...