|
Post by Uroš Golob on May 26, 2020 10:24:30 GMT
Hi, one is to build a boat for sailing in a class, completely different story is to build a boat for "personal sailing around the bay". I don't know how it is in other part of the world, but in Europe there is so many complications if you would like to build the boat by yourself and then register it (at lest in Slovenia . Without registration you are not allowed to use the boat ... However, I asked on Ministry of Maritime Affairs and RINA Office what is the procedure to register self made boat. If the plans are not CE certified it will cost me at least 5K euros for certification after production... Question: Are plans for Class5.80 are already certificated or shout builder certificated boat on their own costs? www.nmma.org/certification/ce-certificationBest Regards, Uroš
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 26, 2020 13:40:20 GMT
Hi, one is to build a boat for sailing in a class, completely different story is to build a boat for "personal sailing around the bay". I don't know how it is in other part of the world, but in Europe there is so many complications if you would like to build the boat by yourself and then register it (at lest in Slovenia . Without registration you are not allowed to use the boat ... However, I asked on Ministry of Maritime Affairs and RINA Office what is the procedure to register self made boat. If the plans are not CE certified it will cost me at least 5K euros for certification after production... Question: Are plans for Class5.80 are already certificated or shout builder certificated boat on their own costs? www.nmma.org/certification/ce-certificationBest Regards, Uroš This is a very strange and sad situation because in every other part of the world I can find...a Home built amature boat is not under CE clasification...infact it is specifically exempt under the CE guidlines themselves, the RULES Governing CE...so unfortunatly your country has chosen a different way to register maybe???....At the moment the plans are not CE as that is not needed ...it is for the commercial builder only to build a boat to CE classification during the build if it is then sold..for example the quality of the build must also be CE certification and yes for them the plans also need to be CE.....so I would check again..if you build your boat youself..not commecial for personal private use...you should be able to register it?? but I do not know your country...?? sorry.. You may find the CE $5000 fee to is for surveys during construction as well..I have no idea but will be interested to follow your challenge there..I have put a few boats and designs though CE and also worked closely with RINA Class Society and the 5.80 is NOT a boat that would ever be put into their classification so hope you can work something out??... .good luck and all the best...Don
|
|
|
Post by craigsailing on May 31, 2020 5:48:16 GMT
With the Globe 5.80 design falling out side of the scope of ISO 12217 conformance due to its length and other non conformities and inturn CE making not possible as a ocean category B craft, boat insurance is going to be an issue and in turn future resale difficult at best.
|
|
ian
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by ian on May 31, 2020 9:37:42 GMT
There is an exemption with the RCD:
""watercraft built for own use, provided it is not subsequently placed on the Community market during a period of five years""
I have built boats from plans that have never had EU RCD compliance, and used them. I have sold them after a 5 year period.
Getting insurance is another topic, but any insurer worth being called as such, would consider a boat built "to spec" as a one design class from a reputable designer.
You may need to show your registration office that your requirement to be RCD compliant is not actually required. Trying to enforce a rule outside of the RCD itself is a breach of EU law.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 31, 2020 9:42:51 GMT
Insurance for Solo transocean sailing is always based on risk and even with CE yachts, is a challenge depending on the sailors experience, the boat and voyage. Often it is NOT available, but it rarely stops the sailor following a dream. The bigger the risk, the bigger the premium charged, or if considered too extreme, there is NO insuance except for Liability. For a Globe 5.80 transOcean adventure, in an official oganised event, I would suggest CE becomes irrelevant, as that is the least of the issues for an insurer. CE is not usually the diving force on "special" risks Insurance like a 19ft yacht solo across the Atlantic. Most, but not all insurers would say no anyway ? but lets wait and see CE is used for the usual "format" mass market insuance premiums, where you tick the boxes and get insured for normal sailing use. Each case is treated independantly. Certainly amature built boats, that can never be built to ISO 12217 are usually able to be insured after a survey for Normal sailing, club racing, coastal cruising. Small Non CE boats, even in Europe are legal and insurable. I am vey confident I will get insuance for TREKKA for nromal sailing in Europe. In many countries, CE to totally irrelivant for insurance of yachts, no matter the build. Instead it all depends on the survey. Insuance companies are in the business of insuring yachts, even 5.80mt yachts, as long as the risk is acceptable and many will never go more than 30 miles offshore. Others will go around the world. I would suggest that the resale value of a 5.80 will be set by factors other than CE and Ocean catagory but lets wait and see....I am in no hurry to sell
|
|
|
Post by hakunamatata on Jun 1, 2020 19:50:06 GMT
Today I had a long discussion again with Ministry of Maritime Affairs and Bureau Veritas (certification company). Finally I talked with relevant persons. So, in EU you there is general regulation what is the procedure to register boat (sailing boat) made by yourself. You don't need CE certification if you will not sell the boat within five years after you will register it. During the build time the decent company (Rina, Germanischelyod, Bureau Veritas, etc.) must check your progress at least once and do the stability check at the end. You need to have all the Invoices about the embedded materials on you own name (this is also mandatory to register boat for ClassGlobe 5.80). The only problem for now is, that in Slovenia nobody didn't get certificate for sail Category A for the boats smaller than 7m. But they are very interested about that project and they said we would surely find a solution. So, a gift for my birthday for me from me will be to buy a plan. And then the adventure will begin Best Regards, Uroš @and yes, Hakuna Matata will be the name of the boat Search what it means.....
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2020 22:37:38 GMT
Hi Hakunamatata..all good news..thanks...just to be sure...Did they say they may find a solution to cetificate for sail Catagory A for the 5.80 being under 7mts..that is VERY INTERESTING for us?.and do they advise the process for their stability check??. WE are planning to do the same for Trekka 01 in Les sables d'olonne France when we are there...we do both an incline test and a mast pull down to 90degees for righting arm/weight etc...but would be interested to know what they do for their stability test THANKS again and I will look forward to seeing HAHUNA MATATA sailing...what does the name mean .....Don
|
|
|
Post by craigsailing on Jun 3, 2020 9:35:39 GMT
Further to the discussion, I attach here a link to DIRECTIVE 2013/53/EU on recreational craft and personal watercraft, I recommend EU builders to take particular attention to the section with regards to the obligations of those that intend to sell/build craft from kits. www.europeanboatingindustry.eu/images/News/RCD-Application-Guide-June-2018.pdfI have my own views-interpretation of the EU regulations, however, I would recommend builders take professional advice on this matter.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 3, 2020 14:30:30 GMT
No need to stress with this in my opinion as it is well defined on the opening definitions...but up to the individual...
QUOTE from definitions in the document.....Note: Kit Boats Kit boats are considered as partly completed watercraft purchased from a manufacturer where all parts necessary to complete the construction of the boat in compliance with the essential requirements of the Directive are provided. When the kit boat manufacturer has supplied all parts necessary for completion, as defined above, CE marking shall be fixed accordingly by the person placing the product on the market or putting it into service. END QUOTE...
No one involved with the Globe 5.80 is supplying anything like this....THNX
|
|
|
Post by bogdan on Jun 14, 2020 5:24:19 GMT
For example, in my country (Romania- East Europeean) the authorities will registered the sailboats, on design specifications. So, if the designer specified into the documentations that the sailboat are design for meteo conditions that involves wind power more than 8 BF and waves more than 4 meters high ( except extreme situations like hurricanes) they will registered the sailboat for ocean going nav area. So, is such a specifications in documentations and plans ?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2020 12:15:01 GMT
Hi..no there is no such statement on the Plans as the decision for the use of the boat is up to the owner. That is really stadard practice. The Euro $300 plans are not what you call a "Class" designed boat for any structural or commercial purpose. It is for private pleasure purpose. You build it and then you sail it. Later we may get CE certification for Proffesional boat builders, or commercial use, but it is not required for now for amature construction. Any CE approved plans for Commercial building would cost substantially more. Thanks...
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 18, 2020 12:55:25 GMT
UPDATE on CE for the Globe 5.80. There are various specific exemptions under the CE rule requiremets. An Amature built vessel is not required to be CE Classified. A craft is also exempted from the RCD if it is a watercraft intended solely for racing, including rowing racing boats and training rowing boats labelled as such by the manufacturer. The Globe 5.80 is specically designed as a strict ONE DESIGN shorthanded ocean racing or club racing Class. Since the 5.80 is a class boat and is designed for competition, it does not have to pass the CE mark, as long as it is certified to comply with the box rules of the 5.80 class and used for racing. Each 5.80 built to plans and to Globe 5.80 CLASS Specifications can then submit a Registration file for assesment by the International Globe 5.80 Class Association. If approved, a registration certificate is issued and 5.80 Plaque for fitting to the main buklkhead povided. Once that Registration Plaque is applied, that registered Globe 5.80 is an approved RACING yacht and exempt from CE requirements.
|
|
|
Post by bogdan on Jun 18, 2020 13:52:08 GMT
Perfect! Thanks for explanations! Anyway, no nedd CE certification.
|
|
|
Post by Uroš on Jan 18, 2021 11:39:13 GMT
Further to the discussion, I attach here a link to DIRECTIVE 2013/53/EU on recreational craft and personal watercraft, I recommend EU builders to take particular attention to the section with regards to the obligations of those that intend to sell/build craft from kits. www.europeanboatingindustry.eu/images/News/RCD-Application-Guide-June-2018.pdfI have my own views-interpretation of the EU regulations, however, I would recommend builders take professional advice on this matter. Dear all, I really would like to biuld this boat but I think it will not go througt all the requirements. I check in Slovenia and today again in Croatia. On Ministry of Maritime Affairs. How to officialy register the boat. If more than 100 boats were build over all it cannot be treated as self-construction. MUST be a declaration of conformity to DIRECTIVE 2013/53/EU. Without that it is NOT possible to officialy register the boat - at least not in the EU. dan, could you please check this again? Or, where and how will you register the boat? Best Regards, Uroš
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 26, 2021 11:24:20 GMT
Yes each country may have different rules?? so please check and tell them what it is...Home built, one design racing class, with conformance plate certified by Class Globe 5.80 Association. ...and there is nothing in CE or EU about 100 boats?? That I am aware of, particularly for a one design racing class. but you should check locally on that .. Thanks..
|
|