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Post by captdan on Nov 26, 2020 1:00:34 GMT
Hello all,
I thought I would share an email conversation from Janusz to save some builders asking the same questions of the Designer.
I wanted to have a couple of thru hull fittings to access some of the fresh water from Lake Superior ( which is where I will primarily sailing initially ) for galley and instruments.
Here are the details of the email .....
From: Dankerri Turk
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 5:43 PM
To: janusz
Subject: Thru hull fittings Hi Janusz,
I am going to be installing a least 2 thru hull fittings in the 580 boat.
Is there any areas that you would not want to see a thru hull ? 1 will be
for instruments forward if the keel and 1 would be for water intake for
galley. Thank you Dan Hull #20
From: "janusz" <janusz@maderski.pl> To: "d kturk" <d_kturk@shaw.ca> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 6:30:10 AM Subject: Re: Thru hull fittings Hi Dan Do not make holes in the bow bottom. Good luck Janusz -----Oryginalna wiadomość-----
From: Dankerri Turk Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 4:41 AM To: janusz Subject: Re: Thru hull fittings Hi Janusz, Can you be a bit more specific? Are you saying anywhere forward of Frame E ? Is a thru hull between Frame D1 and Frame E acceptable ? Thanks, Dan
Hi Dan If you build the first version of the interior, the one with the toilet in the bow part, then either use a chemical or normal toilet and then you can place an outlet and water intake next to it. You can take water from the galley under the galley. The equipment of a small boat should be simple, reliable and light. The fewer the better. Sailing across the ocean on the Setka, I had no hole in the bottom of the hull. On other Setka, no one had any holes in the bottom. The drinking water was in 1.5 liter PET bottles. Water overboard was scooped up with a bucket. Simple, light and safe. Best regards Janusz
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Post by Joe - Sail No 46 on Nov 26, 2020 17:51:39 GMT
So we can put one under the nav station and galley on the chine ? I would like to install a depth/speed log for club racing and blanking plate when needed, plus a sink drain as well. These look light and get reviewed well: www.trudesign.nz/marine/products/8-manual-ball-valve
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Post by captdan on Nov 26, 2020 19:21:18 GMT
So we can put one under the nav station and galley on the chine ? I would like to install a depth/speed log for club racing and blanking plate when needed, plus a sink drain as well. These look light and get reviewed well: www.trudesign.nz/marine/products/8-manual-ball-valveHey Joe, What I hear Janusz saying is that for ultimate safety, obviously NO thru hulls would be best. ( as was done for the Setkas crossing the Atlantic ) However, I read that a thru hull between Frame D1 and Frame E is acceptable. That is the area that I want one for depth/speed/ log just like you. I too am going to put one under the galley area ( 1/2" - 3/4" diameter ) for water intake for the sink. I dont mind dumping a bucket of grey water over the side but I dont think that retrieving water with a line and a bucket is a safe proposition, especially singlehanded. Sometimes it hard on the shoulders ..... just saying Proper seamanship would suggest that the thru hulls be fitted with a ball valve that is regularly inspected and closed when not in use. Captdan
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pete
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by pete on Nov 26, 2020 20:25:16 GMT
Really interesting Dan - thanks for sharing your conversation with Janusz. I was thinking of limiting my boat to two thru hulls, one below the water line for a transducer and one high in the topsides for the sink drain (pumped manually from the tiny sink - mainly for convenience and would also be a bilge pump outlet via a valve). Maybe one more for salt water intake under the galley for washing up but probably not. I was thinking of the transducer thru hull in a similar place forward of the keel for a combined depth/log/temp transducer, but then reviewing the rules for racing the log isn't allowed. (I'd really like one to tune the boat initially though so would have fitted one then removed for the race). Temp is useful for nav at times when ocean sailing (apparently) but not super critical - a handheld thermometer also works. The depth is the kicker with the wooden hull. However I think (and i'm not 100% sure of this) that you can hole saw/ router out a portion of the plywood down to the glass, bevel the edge of the plywood then laminate it back to the correct depth completely with multiple layers of glass and a large overlap inside and outside the hole to make it much stronger than the original plywood, and then install an in-hull transducer with the oil bath etc. Its a massive faff, but would result in a hull with no penetrations (once you've filled the hole you cut with glass etc...). If only a depth transducer (and not a log) the transducer can go a long way aft where the forces are least on the hull if required I guess. Caveat - I have not done this before (apart from fitting an in-hull transducer in a GRP boat - was really easy). I will be taking some advice from an actual boat builder before i try this!
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Post by captdan on Nov 27, 2020 12:50:31 GMT
Pete, I like the idea of using a hand pump to remove water from the sink - simplicity prevails .... The glassing of a section of the hull is beyond my comfort level to ensure it being 100% back to spec. when complete - It does sound like a reasonable way affect your needs though .... So now I need to think about where the galley thru hull will go - Would mid way up the portside chine be the best place ? Under or near the galley ?
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Post by peterbrumby on Nov 27, 2020 16:39:42 GMT
Hi
Just a thought I have not thought through (lol) for the transducer.
I would like a depth measurement so was thinking through hull or transom. Obviously one has through hull, the other was wires running down the back of the boat.
Then an idea popped up...why not build it into the skeg? Unfortunately not easy to access. However we will be penetrating the hull for the skeg bolts. Why not something to run a cable through, then mount a transom transducer on the bottom of the skeg?
Anyway just an idea on a Friday evening.
I was also planning on fitting a marine toilet. So need to understand the concerns about that a little more. Otherwise certain important passengers may choose not to sail with me!
Peter
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Post by Joe - Sail No 46 on Nov 27, 2020 21:04:07 GMT
Hi Peter - I agree with depth, I thought on the chine under nav station, I think they work with an off set. Interestingly I am also going to fit a sea toilet. - www.jabscoshop.com/marine/marine-toilets/toilets/manual-toilets/29090-5000-manual-twist-n-lock-toilet-compact-bowl.htmOne will fit in the forward cabin where batteries go. Perfect height and can be covered with a panel so front cabin is still a bed. Needs a couple thru hulls. But essential to encourage all family members for longer sails! Not found a battery location to relocate to, but will work that out when the hull gets flipped!
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Post by peterbrumby on Nov 28, 2020 9:38:20 GMT
Hi Joe I am thinking along the same lines. But like you need to flip the boat to feel it. Was hoping could off set the marine toilet to one side and batteries on the other. I sailed on a 40ft racing boat once and it had an ultra small stainless steel head. Really compact. However I cannot find it anywhere. Will keep searching. I like Dan’s cardboard testing. I might sail the first year with everything below made of cardboard so I can test it out!! i have seen these upturned and used as “heads” when I used to go to the Le Mans 24 years ago. Would meet the cardboard criteria!
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Post by Joe - Sail No 46 on Nov 28, 2020 20:42:41 GMT
My mrs is running miles from the boat at the prospect of that as a toilet ;-)
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Post by Daniel on Nov 29, 2020 3:09:53 GMT
I don't think there's any structural concern regarding thru-hull fittings, following standard practices. Almost every seagoing vessel has them. The depth is the kicker with the wooden hull. However I think (and i'm not 100% sure of this) that you can hole saw/ router out a portion of the plywood down to the glass, bevel the edge of the plywood then laminate it back to the correct depth completely with multiple layers of glass and a large overlap inside and outside the hole to make it much stronger than the original plywood, and then install an in-hull transducer with the oil bath etc. Its a massive faff, but would result in a hull with no penetrations (once you've filled the hole you cut with glass etc...). If only a depth transducer (and not a log) the transducer can go a long way aft where the forces are least on the hull if required I guess. Caveat - I have not done this before (apart from fitting an in-hull transducer in a GRP boat - was really easy). I've had plenty of thru-hull depth transducers and always forward of the keel on the flat. I like this in-hull idea, because of all the lifting that will happen to ship and trailer. Consider the beam angle though, could be 45 degrees. If you don't flare the wood cut away from the sensor you'll probably only get good readings when the hull is dead flat. To get a good flare, probably easiest to cut this hole and fill it before glassing.
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Post by thomas on Sept 4, 2023 5:49:52 GMT
Are there any news about thru hull fittings? Any experiences or class rules for Transat/MGR? I`m thinking about installing an in hull transducer. Where is the best location to put the transducer? Any information and brainstorming about the fittings is much appreciated. Thanks Thomas
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Post by captdan on Sept 7, 2023 0:47:06 GMT
Hey Thomas, I dont think there any Class rules about where the thru hulls are located nor the number ..... I have my transducer forward of the keel and 1 - 16mm diameter thruhull under the galley. Interestingly enough, I did not use the 16mm thru hull during my Atlantic crossing - not even once. Cheers, Dan Are there any news about thru hull fittings? Any experiences or class rules for Transat/MGR? I`m thinking about installing an in hull transducer. Where is the best location to put the transducer? Any information and brainstorming about the fittings is much appreciated. Thanks Thomas
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brucel
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by brucel on Sept 8, 2023 18:32:37 GMT
What did you want to do with thru hull fittings? I was thinking an in hull sonar and no penetrations (other than keel bolts)
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Post by thomas on Sept 9, 2023 5:18:34 GMT
What did you want to do with thru hull fittings? I was thinking an in hull sonar and no penetrations (other than keel bolts) Hi brucel, that's exactly what I had in mind. For safety reasons, I'm thinking now to have the sea water supply by a thru hull in the galley. I don't want to handle a bucket of water overside of the boat when I'm probably overtired as a solo sailor. Too dangerous to go overboard? Anyway the thru hull water supply I can do it later. The position and installation of the transducer is more important. Do you have an idea where to place it? I will put my Airmar in hull transducer forward from the keel on the bottom of the hull between frame D and frame E. The only option with this small boat? I do the planking of my hull at the moment and I have to laminate the housing now. I have to cut a 100mm whole in the planking. I will do reinforcement of the laminate in the bottom of the hull. Definitely more than the required 1200mg/m2. I will also install a watertight compartment with a small hatch for inspection on top of the transducer housing. Any other ideas? Thanks, Thomas
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brucel
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by brucel on Feb 11, 2024 23:34:25 GMT
Thomas did you end up using the method outlined above?
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